Allrighty folks, after a bit of trail and error tonight, we're come up with some rule tweaks, I'm not the 40k master but I'll try and provide an explanation of each below:
1) 50% Loss before Bottle tests rather than 25% 2) 30 min time limit on a match, once 30 minutes it reached end the turn you're on, then decide the winner based on point 3 if no-one has bottled, the timer starts from the first player's movement phase. 3) Objective point is placed in the center of the map, if 30 minutes is reached and no-one has bottled, winner decided by most models on the Objective (Can be a draw in this case) 4) Bottle test is a d12 not a 2d6 5) No forms of infiltration within 8" of the objective, basically treat it like a model. 6) Deployment is classic 12" from your edge and from the sides.
And some points that are more guides than solid rules, just play it sensibly:
Use lots of terrain, we mean empty the damn storage, hell I wanna get the castle out for one of the objectives!
Be generous when it comes to cover saves, give the benefit of the doubt to the defending model.
Arguments on how we decided on these:
Due to the team sizes in some cases, 25% just didn't fit right with our amalgamated rule set, while 50% can seem daunting, we've balanced it out somewhat with the other rules, the d12 bottle check change helps but is also due to the high leadership of 40k compared to Necromunda, with most teams around the 9 or 10 mark compared to Necromunda's high of 8.
The Objective is included to prevent camping tactics and to force the more shooty teams to move, also as a decider if we hit the 30 min mark, making for quick and active games.
The infiltration is pretty obvious, we're not having everyone take a frikkin tank and infiltrating it onto the objective the first turn.
Lastly, we're keeping an eye on overwatch (ironically), due to how powerful it is in these small games, but should be balanced out overall.
There was some chatter about overwatch during 2e. Ignoring for a moment that it's a great mechanic for simulating how actual warfare works in practice, lets consider it's impact. Troops on overwatch don't get to move. They only get to fire in their 90° facing arc. They have to survive a psychic phase before their opponent gets to move. They get a delayed shot at troops who they couldn't see in their own turn, but at -1, often -2 or worse. When dealing with fast moving targets, like assault marines, genestealers, bikes, skimmers and cavalry, overwatch is often the only shot you get before they strike or charge.
In smaller games, rules like this, and skills used in Necromunda, are more useful than ever to create tactical choices. In Necromunda models would often have a lower BS, but it also used less cover terrain balancing out hit probabilities.
I love overwatch. I imagine it would be very tricky to run at someone who is waiting with a gun. But there are ways round it, like screening troops. I very rarely use it though.
Personally I'm happy with it as long as the -1 and the 90 degree arc are enforced.
Just one clarification, if a model only rotates on the spot to change their facing, does that count as movement thus prevent them going into Overwatch?
Turning doesn't count as moving, even for heavy weapons, so you can go on overwatch. As for the 90 degree fire arc, from the FAQ
Q: Since you can turn and fire on overwatch does that mean that you cant position your troops with firing arcs in a particular position (i.e. to avoid firing at some targets that may be closer than others)? Must you turn to shoot at the closest target on overwatch or can you remain stationary to avoid firing at some targets close behind you? A: Turning is an option, you don't have to if you don't want to.
They FAQ'd the fire arc as optional? Although tactical, it removes the feeling of guys aiming waiting for enemy to show. Speaking of blunders, I read an Andy Chambers interview where he says he feels he killed off Epic with his 3e game.
Q: How about Swooping Hawks or Gargoyles charging you by landing behind you, can you turn and shoot for free or do you get "surprised" and receive no chance of overwatch fire? A: At the Studio we play a house rule which allows models on overwatch to turn in place before they shoot, unless they have a move or fire weapon.
So yes, you can turn and shoot on overwatch, but not with move or fire weapons. Happy compromise? Guess people were really sick of Swooping Hawks!
Just had a look at my rules rewrite, and that's exactly what I've put ;-)
On a related note, who knew that vehicle mounted weapons can go on overwatch even if the vehicle moves?
Comments
1) 50% Loss before Bottle tests rather than 25%
2) 30 min time limit on a match, once 30 minutes it reached end the turn you're on, then decide the winner based on point 3 if no-one has bottled, the timer starts from the first player's movement phase.
3) Objective point is placed in the center of the map, if 30 minutes is reached and no-one has bottled, winner decided by most models on the Objective (Can be a draw in this case)
4) Bottle test is a d12 not a 2d6
5) No forms of infiltration within 8" of the objective, basically treat it like a model.
6) Deployment is classic 12" from your edge and from the sides.
And some points that are more guides than solid rules, just play it sensibly:
Use lots of terrain, we mean empty the damn storage, hell I wanna get the castle out for one of the objectives!
Be generous when it comes to cover saves, give the benefit of the doubt to the defending model.
Arguments on how we decided on these:
Due to the team sizes in some cases, 25% just didn't fit right with our amalgamated rule set, while 50% can seem daunting, we've balanced it out somewhat with the other rules, the d12 bottle check change helps but is also due to the high leadership of 40k compared to Necromunda, with most teams around the 9 or 10 mark compared to Necromunda's high of 8.
The Objective is included to prevent camping tactics and to force the more shooty teams to move, also as a decider if we hit the 30 min mark, making for quick and active games.
The infiltration is pretty obvious, we're not having everyone take a frikkin tank and infiltrating it onto the objective the first turn.
Lastly, we're keeping an eye on overwatch (ironically), due to how powerful it is in these small games, but should be balanced out overall.
Troops on overwatch don't get to move. They only get to fire in their 90° facing arc. They have to survive a psychic phase before their opponent gets to move. They get a delayed shot at troops who they couldn't see in their own turn, but at -1, often -2 or worse. When dealing with fast moving targets, like assault marines, genestealers, bikes, skimmers and cavalry, overwatch is often the only shot you get before they strike or charge.
In smaller games, rules like this, and skills used in Necromunda, are more useful than ever to create tactical choices. In Necromunda models would often have a lower BS, but it also used less cover terrain balancing out hit probabilities.
Just one clarification, if a model only rotates on the spot to change their facing, does that count as movement thus prevent them going into Overwatch?
Q: Since you can turn and fire on overwatch does that mean that you cant position your troops with firing arcs in a particular position (i.e. to avoid firing at some targets that may be closer than others)? Must you turn to shoot at the closest target on overwatch or can you remain stationary to avoid firing at some targets close behind you?
A: Turning is an option, you don't have to if you don't want to.
Speaking of blunders, I read an Andy Chambers interview where he says he feels he killed off Epic with his 3e game.
Q: How about Swooping Hawks or Gargoyles charging you by landing behind you, can you turn and shoot for free or do you get "surprised" and receive no chance of overwatch fire?
A: At the Studio we play a house rule which allows models on overwatch to turn in place before they shoot, unless they have a move or fire weapon.
So yes, you can turn and shoot on overwatch, but not with move or fire weapons. Happy compromise? Guess people were really sick of Swooping Hawks!
Just had a look at my rules rewrite, and that's exactly what I've put ;-)
On a related note, who knew that vehicle mounted weapons can go on overwatch even if the vehicle moves?
http://www.scarboroughgames.com/files/40k-2e/Kill Team.pdf
https://app.box.com/shared/hs3h5bu41a
Skills are on p89. These links don't seem to last long though...