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2nd edition Kill Team

edited April 2014 in Wargames
I didn't want to hijack the tournament thread any more than I already have, so I'll stick this here.
Link to the Kill Team rules: Team.pdf

Made a few changes. We can probably allow any and all wargear cards. The number excluded by the 15 point limit was very small, and probably unjustified. Disallowed special characters, not that there are many within the 2 wound limit. I can just see special characters with necromunda skills being great fun...
We can probably allow vehicles with an armour value up to 12. This allows bikes, buggies, land speeders, wraithguard etc.. but not anything higher. An allowance of 15 would allow sentinels in. What about personal armour? Are we happy with terminator armour?
Removed the pinning rules, only because I can't see marines in power armour or terminator armour being pinned from a stub gun shot.
Changed my mind about the techmarine tax, I think we can drop that too.


  • If the tournament opts for 5th ed. I am up for a few games of this to see how it works:-)
  • SimSim
    edited April 2014
    I would say:
    Only vehicles where you can hit the crew. Not sure on War Walkers - don't they get a special save on the crew? (stops the heavy arms race)
    No vortex or virus style grenades
    Only troops with 1D6 saves (Termie + assault cannon or reaper could run out in front and shield the entire team, or be at the back and be nigh on invincible)
    No deepstrike

    Is the freedom to buy individuals needed at 250pts? I think WD added in combat teams of 5 for marines where a devestator squad could get 2 heavy weapons, tactical could take 1 heavy or special. Squad price halved.
  • War walkers get a 2+ power field save on the crewman.
    Agree about terminator armour.
    Not sure about purchasing models. Wanted to be as flexible as possible.
  • Perhaps open top vehicles max AV15. Keep the flexibility on units.

    Probably for the best to ban allies. Will sustained fire weaponry work using the Munda rules?
  • I suppose they thought that necromunda weapons already had a chance to jam with the ammo check. Plus the red dice were hard to get hold of. I say keep the red dice!
  • Actually I meant the rules on spreading shots. 40K rules state it must only be figures in the same unit.
  • We'll have to allow any models within 4" to be hit, like Necromunda. I actually like the Necromunda way of rolling the sustained fire dice first, then rolling to hit. That allows you to roll separately for targets in cover behind the first.
  • Ok so would the process be:
    Nominate target
    Roll fire dice
    Allocate shots (minimum 1 on target?)
    Roll x dice to hit for each target
  • edited April 2014
    Yes. Still using the old red sustained fire dice. Any jams take effect after the shots are taken. At least one shot to be allocated at the original target.
    Having a few play test games on Monday. Paul is bringing his Orks, I'll bring down a couple of different forces.
  • Same rules for twin linked sustained weapons?

    The biggest benefit will be to low bs shooters firing into hard cover. Also Slick Crew just became awesome on autocannon/heavy bolter teams.

    In combination with the adjusted prices for vehicle weapon swops this should buff some Orky stuff.
  • Pros and cons...
    In the original system you could fire at a model in the open, but allocate hits to models in cover or a special model in the squad, which is dodgy. The necro system means you need to roll to hit individually.
    But rolling the red dice first means you're more likely to jam, as you wouldn't normally roll them if you missed.
    However, once you start meddling you inadvertently change things,like slick crew.
  • In the Chaos codex they clarify that sustained fire shots cannot hit squad characters or targets who would be harder to hit (p64).
  • I wish they'd got around to re-writing the rule book! Guess I'll have to do it myself.
  • SimSim
    edited April 2014
    Well they did! They called it third edition...

    They also added in Monstrous Creature types for targetting which should apply to the Avatar. I assume the Nid book also repeats this for its big creatures.
    They also clarified flame like templates with the targetting rules.
  • Any changes to the rules since your last playtest?
  • Changed point 6 to "any model" must have exposed crew, rather than any vehicle. Pesky Wraithguard. Thinking of changing the injury chart to 1-2 flesh wound, 3-4 down, 5-6 dead. Seemed irrelevant otherwise.
  • How are we handling IG veteran upgrades? Also requirements that say 1 per squad, is that ignored?
  • I would probably ignore it...special/heavy weapons are pretty expensive. If you want 10 guard with plasma guns you'll need the models too:-)

    Guard veteran abilities,cost per model

    Crazed -not used as break tests are not used
    Dead Eye Shots -4 points?
    Freedom Fighters -5 points?
    Grizzled -only useful for the captain/colonel for bottle tests. 15 points?
    Guerrillas -1 point?
    Hardened Fighters -1 point?
    Slick Crew -3 points? for sustained fire weapons 5? both crew need the skill.
    Stealthy -1 point
    Street Fighters -2 points
    Tank Hunters -1 point
  • Was thinking of harlequin chars re: 1/squad.

    I also think banning 2+ saves would be best for balance - 250pts isnt a lot to make up for easy dice rolls.
  • edited May 2014
    Sorry to dig up an old discussion but I came across something while looking at a Marine team, you normally buy a squad of 10 (Including 1 Sargent) for 300pts and give 4 of them special weapons, too many points ofc so you split them down at, by the rules, 30pts a pop but this presents a problem or two:

    Do you still get the Sargent?
    How many of the Special weapons do you get?

    Personally I'd look at a proportion based system, so say there's n special weapons allocated, I'd say you get one for every 1/n of the squad you take rounded up (Squad of 10 with 4 weapons, you take 5 and get 2 weapons of your choice)

    As for the Sargent, I'd say either 50% of the squad allocation or count him like a special weapon (Normal Squad of 10 again, you take 6 of them, you can have 3 special weapons or 2 and upgrade a marine to a Sargent)

    Please stop me if I'm talking out my behind here, but I worry if you get none of them, they may end up over-priced.

    Edit: Scratch that, I misread it and am indeed talking out my behind, carry on all, nothing to see here
  • :-)
    Don't worry. The tactical squad is easy,30 points each. They all have the same weapons, but you could buy two sergeants and equip them as such. I think heavy and special weapons are expensive enough to discourage people loading up on them.
    The tricky one is scouts. I'd say the scout sergeant costs 22 points (30 minus 5 points to put a marine in carapace armour, minus 3 points for his bolter), making scouts 19 points each.
  • edited May 2014
    No worries, I'm up to around 6 marines already and I don't think I can afford Wargear never mind heavy weapons...but the model with the rocket launcher in the Black Reach set looks bad-ass >.<
  • Is it safe to say any weapons acquired through War Gear are under the same restrictions as Heavy/Special weapons when it comes to Skills, or if it stipulates Basic Weapons only that excludes anything like a Custom-Shoota
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