Triumph & Treachery

Sim

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod2250034a

This could be the best expansion of the century! Something groundbreaking has been overdue for a long time. I'm looking forward to seeing how this works.

chrisb

i wouldnt mind seeing how it works aswell.

Wookie

I dunno, just read the latest white dwarf. Shock of Horrors, the newest army carried the game by a generous margin....
It's becoming a regular failing with GW stuff, the newest army carries all the cheesiest gear and wins by default.

Sim

White Dwarf is a sales catalogue, I wouldn't pay much attention to it.

Krypter

Read any WD battle report and you'll notice that roughly 8 out of 10 battles see the new product winning, its one of the many tools used to make them look like must haves.
It doesn't make them over powered, broken or flat out better than the rest, just makes them the new toys GW want to sell.

ddmooch

They play multiple battle reports till they get an exciting one that shows off the new stuff to its best effect.

Wookie

That's rather my point. Of course White Dwarf is a sales catalogue, and they're trying to sell the new stuff, and to do that they make it as attractive as possible, a general cheese escalation.
Every new army book or codex comes complete with it's new set of deathstars and expensive models to match. They're not so much interested in a great game anymore as much as selling new auto-win models.
Suffice to say I'm unconvinced, but they may yet change my mind. They are good models, I'm just less happy with the rules.

Krypter

I think your reading too much into it. After studying the new Dark Elves book since release I have a hard time seeing any auto-win models and combos and that's from a Matt Ward book!
Sure there are some nasty things but every book has those, it's far from broken or overpowered even compared to older edition books.

PaulTattoo

I have only played a handful of games with the most recent edition on warhammer but enjoyed them alot and thought that the rules were pretty solid?.
maybe the more I play the more the cracks appear but overall I enjoy the game:)

ddmooch

The rules of warhammer fantasy battle and 40k are tournament rules sets.This makes games more about min/ maxing rather than story driven games.

Krypter

I can't speak for fantasy but GW have stated on several occasions that the current edition of 40k was not made with tournament style play in mind, going on the number of random rolls I'd say that applied to WHFB too but thats just my opinion ( cant really make a great list if half your abilities are generated randomly e.g daemons)

Min/maxing is a playstyle choice but it's not the only way to play and it's largely done at events, don't think anyone at the club runs min/max lists.
In fact, going on the last few books for both systems (lizards aside as I've never read it), the games seem to favour synergy instead.

As for the expansion - seems bit... meh. It's already possibly to play multi-player games and the price tag seems a bit hefty for what it is. Could it be fun? Maybe, but I doubt it'll increase the games popularity much and I won't be surprised to find most (if not all) of the features it boasts, added to the next edition of fantasy ( supposedly out next year).

Jswiers

"The rules of warhammer fantasy battle and 40k are tournament rules sets.This makes games more about min/ maxing rather than story driven games."


Oh god no Ian. GW rules are wooly, and loose. Entirely not suited for tournaments. THATS why the horrible min/maxing happens. Because its a game that isn't "stress tested" by people trying to abuse the rules.

GW have just released two campaign books (and forgeworld have half a dozen) for storey based 40k play. I think they support story more than most. People just choose not to. (I've never been a fan of narrative play in wargames myself. It always seems to go wrong.)