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In Hindsight to the Last meeting.

At the last meeting complaints were brought up regardig the players who finished in the top three of our magic tournament, (well done to those three), these complaints led to the reinstatement of fees for the monthly tournaments. whilst they are not regulars they did pay the £1.50 charge everyone else paid for club that evening, therefore all players paid an equal entry, the idea of these tournaments is to be good fun for everyone, generally social rather than a serious event.
In my opinion the reintroduction of a charge somewhat reduces this atmosphere and takes away the fun of it, which is what the club is all about, the prizes are not expensive that we provide and everyone was happy with the tournament itself, therefore i think we should scrap the idea that charges be replaced on tournaments, Do please post your thoughts on the Matter :)



  • I agree with Ryan: the very purpose of the regular £1.50 nightly charge, it seems to me, is to cover society expenses, which one would expect to include the sponsorship or provision of tournament prizes. Moreover, surely it hasn't escaped the society management that as well as functioning as social events, tournaments are excellent promotional opportunities, and in this respect it would benefit the society to make these as appealing to players and prospective members as possible.
  • I think the complaints were about people who don't attend the club winning the tournament?
    While I agree to keeping things friendly, I can see people getting tired pretty quickly if non-members keep turning up to collect the prizes before disappearing again. It's member's nightly fees that pay for those prizes after all. But they can only do that four times:-)
    We should, however, be happy to see new players, and hope that they will join the club.
  • As I pointed out, a quick solution would be to enforce a policy whereby tournament participants MUST have attended a minimum number of nights at the club to be allowed entry, or in the case of a new member, pay XYZ amount ( logicly totaling the sum they would have paid had they attended, including membership fees)
    As i see it, that would mean everyone had put in their share and the need for a tournament entry fee is then negligible.
  • I can appreciate that, but they did pay on the night (the players in question), and as was pointed out on the night, the players in question had just returned from University in Wales.
  • I disagre with the idea of Enforcing anything on people, everyone is welcome and people shouldnt be forced to pay more just because they havent attended enough, especially if prior to these events they were unable to attend at all.
  • That's not the point, the point is to ensure that everyone taking part has paid the same and thus making it fair for all those involved which would, in my mind, negate the need for an entry fee.

    At the end of the day it's just a suggestion and realistically you're never going to please everyone,so the next best thing is to make it as fair to everyone as possible.
  • But doing what we did was an answer to a single individuals complaint, other than that all other particiapants were unanimous in their approval of the tournament
  • If the majority were happy with things as they were surely the vote to reinstate a fee would have reflected that?.
    ( I'm assuming there was a vote, I honestly can't remember but that's usually how we do things. can someone confirm this, perhaps with a count of those in favour for/against if possible please?)

    In your OP you indicated that your opinion was, that the fee lessened the overall experience of the event, but I think having someone walk in and take top spot while having paid considerably less to the club as everyone else is simply unfair to those who have attended and paid week after week.

    As pointed out in another thread, a certain shopkeeper could easily have turned up ( perhaps with a few few friends) and quite possibly taken all 3 top spots while not having attended for months.
    How many people would have been happy then? How happy would everyone be if it happened repeatedly.....?
    How happy would people have been had it been someone on a free trial period that won?

    Restrictions like an entry fee and/or minimum club attendance, while not ideal ( i did say it was a quick fix) is at least a fairer method to the majority who DO attend regularly and who help the club pay for such events.

    That's just my opinion.

  • AS long as someone is a member of the club, I do not see why they can not take part if they have been away for what ever reason. I do believe though, that you could solve the problem of having people turn up only on the night and taking the top spot and not attending again until the next event by maybe doing it this way:

    Monday of the tournament week you should have a preliminary round, an event where the top X amount of player get to compete in the main event on the Wednesday night, therefore everyone must be present for the first part to earn a place in the main event??

    I hope that makes sense, i'm not very good at getting my point across.
  • So in essence the event would take place over 2 nights, with players having to attend both nights in order to participate?

    Hmm, interesting idea, but isn't that more or less enforcing the minimum club attendance thing? Also it means people are paying two nights fees for the event, which may or may not be seen as good thing.

    I'm more or less flying blind as i have no clue how the card tournaments are played or arranged, just giving everyone a neutral outsiders perspective.
  • What about tournament participation rights being reserved exclusively for full members as that was sort of the reason i paid a 10 pound membership. It is after all a club event. We wouldnt let new members turn up on the day and go to comicon so why is this any different... In my opinion someone should show a commitment before reaping the perks. In the case of going to uni and thus not attending... Miss the tourney, turn up to club for a while and join in on the next one.
  • I completely agree with Willis!!
  • The problem being that your excluding members from the event for non attendance, which may not necessarily be under their control.
    These folk have paid their £10 membership too so have just as much right to attend, don't they?
    A minimum attendance and/or fee option for entry would bring everyones contributions in line.

    Random example, entrants must attend 2club nights in 3-4 week period, that would mean that everyone taking part had contributed the same and there would be no entry fee. Those that didn't attend could have the option to pay a higher fee ( say randomly...£10) to enter.

    This means there's a bit more incentive to attend the club but if you can't make it, there's still a way to enter.

    New members are trickier to handle but again the fee to play would probably be fairest all round unless they magically show to sign up on the night of the event in which case I would probably opt to not allow them into the competition.
  • Heres the thing:

    You put prizes in.

    Prizes mean that *someone* will be being competitive. Because they want the prizes.

    If you put in your precautions, nothing stops me from coming to take your prizes, because I'm a member. Will you ban me as well?

    What if I started lending a powerful deck to one of your players, in exchange for half the prizes. Is that getting him banned too?

    You *cannot* feasibly control who enters your tournament. Drop the prizes if you don't want people entering to get them, and play casually, or get a club trophy, which shows who's your monthly champion without giving anything away.
  • I personally have no problem with People entering from outside the club, the idea of these tournaments is to attract new members, which it did. With that in mind I think that we shouldn't change the regulations if we know they're working
  • The majority of the club membership clearly disagree if they voted to reinstate the entry fee, to get a recount it would be better to discuss it at the next committe meeting.
  • I will begin with some context. Due to the treasurer being unavailable to attend that night, I took the nightly fees. The society currently runs a 2 weeks free policy for new visitors, before they become paid up members. If anyone new to the society was charged that night (including tournament players), that was my mistake due to not having the society ledger. They should feel free to approach the committee for their money back or it can be put towards their annual membership. With the absence of the treasurer we will have to be more vigilant in checking memberships. Perhaps requiring all members to display their members card, but I digress - There are 2 different issues here:

    * Tournament budget
    It's essentially a choice between casual, free, small prize tournaments and serious, charged, big prize tournaments. While I can't speak for the rest of the committee, I think either format, or even both, are ok for the society. For reference I imagine a ticketed tournament would double (or more) the budget (as costed for the Magic comp), perhaps increasing the prize pool or providing everyone a prize.

    * Tournament entry
    We can use tournaments to promote to potential new gamers (open to all). The other option is to use them to incentivise membership (members only). Both have benefits. I prefer a members only policy if the tournaments are free to encourage membership and remove potential abuse, but its the members who make the decisions so we can hold another meeting on this subject in the near future.

    I believe it was voted on, a few people were noisy which may of meant some people missed the discussion. The secretary should have the minutes available soon. For the record the treasury is not currently recording individuals attendance and is reliant on honesty and memory. As an aside there will be some changes to the treasury in the near future.

    This discussion would welcome more input from others, so we have a broad spectrum of opinions and ideas.
  • I should add I think the evening was a great success and I hope future card tournaments continue in this direction.
  • Ill speak to the other card players on Monday, mainly those involved in the tournament.
  • I didnt take part in the tournament but it did observe a few games and it seemed to run pretty smoothly and the people involved seem to enjoy themselves.
    While the tournament idea is still in its infancy why not just keep it a casual fun thing as I believe it will encourage more people, who may not be the best player in the world, to enter and give it a try!
    Are people that bothered about prizes? is taking part and enjoying playing and promoting the game just as important?
    Somebody mentioned not giving away prizes which could work, maybe give them a certificate and then after a few tournaments have a kind of "grand slam" of all the pervious winners and have a prize at the end.
    Just a thought:)
  • We could certainly have a trophy for the winner to keep until the next tournament, with maybe some other benefits
  • Or maybe have more structure to the tournament to stop overly powerful decks from from walking all over the competition?
    Maybe make it standard format as other forms maybe be too one sided for players with the most powerful cards?
    Just an idea as I am looking forward to the next tournament:)
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