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Bringing Forge World to the tabletop, what are peoples thoughts?

edited May 2013 in Wargames
Balanced? Under-powered? Over-powered?

What are peoples thoughts on using forge world rules? Say your opponent rocks up with a full forge world army? Death Korps/Coursairs/Chaos Dwarves etc? What is your reaction? Is it totally fine, just more warhammer/40k? Or is it different somehow? What if they show up with mostly Codex pieces, but a Forge World unit or two?

Is Forge world a fully integrated part of the Warhammer game system now or should we limit it to certain games? What do YOU think?

Comments

  • I'm definatly PRO forgeworld provided the units are for the right systems. The 40k stamp denotes a unit is fine for normal use, the APOC stamp means ( surprise surprise) it's for games of Apocalypse. Stick to that and generally things are fine.

    There's alot of misconceptions about how broken some units are but it's been my experience that most of it comes down to not knowing the unit's rules correctly.
    In fact with the release of 6th ed and the introduction of Hull points, most FW units are even less threatening than they were before.
    Sure there are some iffy units that can be open to abuse but that's no different than most other systems.

    I've been on both sides of the table facing off against FW armies with my 'vanilla' GW forces, and using FW units myself. I've never once felt that a unit has been stupidly broken.

    So if someone wants to rock up with a full FW army i say bring the pain! Playing with and against non run of the mill units helps to keep life in the game and stops things getting stale.
  • My nephew has over 7000pts of Chaos Dwarfs. He games with them regularly at his club.

    I would say however that the decision to field FW units should be approved by your opponent. I've seen many gamers, particularly ones which have entered the hobby through GW, that lack the desire to create a game that is fun for both sides.

    When you play someone, you are entering a social contract to participate in a game which should be enjoyable and memorable by both parties. In recent times, gamers have relinquished that responsibility and passed it onto the ruleset to ensure fun and balance. Since no ruleset can be perfectly balanced, gamers end up studying the rules for weaknesses and then exploit them. This results in games where themed, creative armies are crushed against the weight of cheese or unit combos.

    The increasing push from manufacturers with tournaments has led to manic scrutiny of forums to discover the perfect list, with nobody stopping to think why those units would be together, what caused your army to battle their opponent, or what fates lie ahead for the heroes wounded in combat.

    Great battles can be fought with the help of your opponent, and while co-operation is seen less often today, the rewards can be legendary.
  • I agree with Malcom and Simon here. As long as you follow the stamps in the FW books you should be just fine. Some of the weapons on these "premium" models do sometimes come across as being a little overpowered, but then sometimes not. For example SM can take a Dreadnought in a codex drop pod; but they can also take them in a FW drop pod; the only real reason why you would do this is because it allows the dreadnought to assault out of the drop pod, an invaluable tactic for an ironclad to use. However for this one benefit, you have to pay way more than double the cost in points. And this is the case with most FW models, you have to pay for the extra fire-power with more of your points. I do think that for gamers who like a challenge or like to see something different, FW is the perfect to spice up a battle.

    When it comes down to it though it should be about the two players just enjoying a game. Sometimes though people do seek exploits and especially in tournaments will take all of the fun out of a game; why does victory have to be the only objective to some people?

    Sometimes it is just respectful for one player not to use FW if their opponent does not wish them too (maybe they have had a bad experience with them before). But then again, why not let them use it? They have spent a lot of money on a model which is allowed to be used in normal games; surely it is only fair to let them use it. A coin has two sides.

    I think what is best is to simply try and come to a compromise. If you're opponent does not wish you to use it for one reason or another, maybe say "well ok but how about if you kill it you get an additional victory point?" Hopefully this should make the other player feel more secure about playing against a FW model and maybe come to realise that they aren't so bad after all; so in future they do not ask you not to use it.
  • I'll briefly list why I never play with FW rules:

    1. Lopsided: Before this month, necrons had one none apoc unit. The imperials had roughly sixty.

    2. A handful of utterly broken units: The death corps of Krieg field 90% of this rubbish, but marines have the achiles and cestus. Krieg get the following: The 3rd ed doctrines package, with 4th ed orders bolted on, immobile battle tanks at 1/3 normal cost, which use a toughness rating of 7, and have as many as EIGHT wounds, can claim cover and use orders. Las cannon teams who fire ordanance blast ap1 las cannons, and of cause: The hades breaching drill, with its ap1, large blast, melta deepstrike, which removes cover from the game, can crush models against the table edge/buildings to destroy them outright, and has a devildogs main gun, for less points than a devildog. Followed the next turn by 5 engineers wielding a demo charge, to point blank your units, who no longer have cover.

    I'm aware that 40k has some imbalance itself. But to use a metaphor: If my food is too salty, why would I want to add a great heap of salt?

    3. Flyers. Same reasoning as 2, to some degree, but given I'm not super keen on the flying rules currently, (and believe a cap of a max of 1 flyer should be in any game, and would happy to just use flyers as skimmers and ignore the rules wholesale) what I don't want, is about thirty extra flyers in the game...
  • A lot of units that are super over-powered or utterly crap ...... just like the basic game;)
  • Will be interested to see the new Death corp army list when it's released in thge new IA book.
  • Well, it HAS to be less abusive than the last one. I don't think they could conceivably up the powerlevel...
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