Empire of the Dead KS

Sim

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/832150598/empire-of-the-dead-requiem-0

I've got the £75 Early Bird reserved although might change pledge depending on how the stretch goals progress.

Jswiers

*Hiss* Dirty pre-sale "kickstarters" cutting out retailers

Am I right in thinking that the only thing you get for kickstarting is a single extra figure?

George

You also get the bonus of the company actually coming to fruition. Without kickstarters most games which people might want to play wouldn't happen. So even if the bonus for helping them is only one additional miniature than what you'd usually buy, without your help you might not be able to play the game at all ever! Which would suck

Jswiers

Except this is a pre-existing company, who are simply pre-selling their new expansion.

I love the idea of new projects through kickstarter, being crowdfunded to allow new designers who havn't got the funding to publish the games themselves to get the game made. I hate its use as a staging platform for companies who can already afford to make their games to cut stores out of the loop.

This concludes my soapboxing for the day >.>

George

maybe they wouldn't be able to afford the new expansion without fans support?

Sim

The KS allows them to massively increase their speed of delivery, since they can outsource things like mould making. West Wind are a small manufacturer in the industry, and aren't commonly stocked by retailers anyway.

Jswiers

They presumably have their own production department though? So why outsource at all?

George

maybe its not big enough, like Simon said they're a small manufacturer.

Jswiers

Without wanting to drag this out as a back and forth. Their kickstarter was for models already sculpted (they had photos up) and aimed to raise £5000 in sales.

If their company can't raise £5000 of its own capital for its project its not a company.

£5000 is nothing. Absolutely nothing.


That is why I say that their kickstarter is just a way to cut retailers out of the loop, with presales.

Sim

Actually less than half the new range has been sculpted. Thats why the KS is filled with illustrations, and not photos. The kickstarter registered goal is clearly not the true intended target, as their original 200 Early Bird pledge slots will bring in over £17,000. Like most businesses, they realise low targets with rapid and frequent stretch goals is the best way to get people to pledge up.

I think you forget the longtail in the industry, most companies can barely afford to pay their staff. I spoke with a manufacturer today, £8K is the difference between him celebrating this Xmas, or filing for bankruptcy.

Companies can already cut out retailers by declining trade enquiries and offering pre-orders on their website.

Jswiers

Its illegal to decline trade enquiries in the UK Competition laws n all that.

Anyway. Westwind make/stock 15 ranges, and Hundreds of models for some of those games (secrets for example). They run forged in battle, one of the top 15mm WW2 ranges at the moment.

A lot of their new models must be done, because while their KS is half empty, its also half full, with about 40 models made and painted.

As for £8k being the difference between celebrating or being bankrupt, I'm not surprised if he's a small company. 8k is two thirds of a years minimum wage. If I *lost* 8k I'd be annoyed.

But to front the money yourself is different. An existing business had better have that kind of money floating about, or its doomed.

Sim

>Its illegal to decline trade enquiries in the UK Competition laws n all that.

I'm pretty sure you can choose to only sell product direct.

I'm confident looking at their KS that this cash injection will allow them to accelerate their plans. A KS attracts much more attention to a product line than just releasing it on a rolling monthly basis. Rather than cut out retailers, they are broadening their market.

Jswiers

>>Its illegal to decline trade enquiries in the UK Competition laws n all that.

> I'm pretty sure you can choose to only sell product direct.

Yeah but they dont do that. The second you do trade sales, you can't exclude people unless you can find evidence of bad credit histories, criminal activities, etc.

The problem arises when a company does retail and distribution and then conflicts its own interests.

Examples:

Bushido is distributed by wayland games. Wayland are ****holes of the highest order, and many retailers don't want to deal with them or give them money, costing GCT a lot of potential sales and advertising.

GW recenty put out a website only book with rules in it, causing a fair quantity of negative feedback from their clients.

Spartan Games sometimes do sales on their website. Much to the malign of people trying to plug their games for them. (Ie. Whats the point of a store trying to make firestorm popular for them if they then undercut us by 20% in a sale?)

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These companies evidently feel they need BnM stores to recruit them players, but then try and take us out of the equation for quick cash. They can't have both the advertising and the money. Look at White Wolf's new policy: All books kickstartered, then print on demand. Because they know stores won't touch their new books now that they want all of the money.